Backtalk: What Are We Supposed to Do Now?

This week, Dahlia and Amy are tired, depressed, and angry—what are we supposed to do with all these awful feelings? In the wake of the Supreme Court confirmation for Brett Kavanaugh, we’re thinking about who gets to display feelings and what it tells us about where our feelings belong. Mostly we feel rage, but it isn’t enough and we’re thinking on what productive anger can look like. And in this week’s Amy vs. Dahlia, we want to know what’s more annoying about feminist marketing: all the vaginas or the faux self-care? Text “Marketplace” to 503-855-6485 to let us know!


What if the vicious puberty that strikes the teen body is actually controlled by crass, weird, sex-positive hormone monsters? That makes sense, right? Big Mouth is a rated-R cartoon about seventh grade, the weirdness of puberty, and yes, there are actual hormone monsters.


In the Atlantic piece, “Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong,” we’re learning about how the medical community talks about and treats obesity has caused more harm than good.


Malaysian artist Zamaera is a hip-hop start to watch out for with the track “Z vs Z.”


Photo: Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women’s Anger cover by Soraya Chemaly

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DAHLIA: This episode of Backtalk is sponsored by Wild Fang. At Wild Fang, we’re pretty big fans of rule breaking. Case in point: we’re female-founded and women-run with clothing and accessories inspired by men’s fashion. Because we believe in a woman’s right to wear whatever the hell she wants and be whoever the hell she wants. So, head over to That’s to get $10 off your next order with code “right on.”  


[theme music]  


Welcome to Backtalk. This is a feminist response to pop culture podcast. I’m Dahlia Balcazar, Senior Editor.  


AMY: And I’m Amy Lam, Contributing Editor.  


DAHLIA: And on every episode of Backtalk, we start out by sharing our pop culture moment. Amy, what is yours?  


AMY: My favorite pop culture moment is learning that writers Kelly Link and Natalie Diaz winning the MacArthur Genius Grant!  


DAHLIA: Yay!  


AMY: Yeah. I really love Kelly Link’s work. I’ve read her collections of short stories where she does like literary fiction with a fantasy bent. And usually it’s around the lives of girls and women in these gorgeous familiar yet unfamiliar worlds. And Natalie Diaz’s poetry is just so touching and uniquely, I think, American in that it explores her identity as a Mojave American and a Latina. It’s just always heartening to see, I think, the work of women writers being celebrated in this way, especially with the MacArthur Genius Grant. So, shout out to them for winning such a prestigious award.  


DAHLIA: My pop culture moment comes to us from the wonderful world of Twitter. Over the weekend, this horrible hashtag HimToo was trending, which is some sort of— 




DAHLIA: [laughs] —horrible attempt to reclaim the #MeToo movement and to instead, put the focus on all of the false allegations of rape against men, is that’s the intention of #HimToo. But obviously, that’s terrible. But this is not terrible. What happened is that a woman tweeted a photo of her cute son, and she wrote, “This is my son. He graduated #1 in boot camp. He was awarded the USO award. He was #1 in a school. He is a gentleman who respects women. He won’t go on solo dates due to the current climate of false sexual accusations by radical feminists with an axe to grind. I vote. #HimToo.”  


OK. So then, the internet made fun of her a lot and posted a lot of photos of Norman Bates from Psycho and—  


AMY: [laughs]  


DAHLIA: —demons and just a bunch of things being like, “This is my son!” OK! But the best part is that, Peter, her son was taking a test at the University of Central Florida when a bunch of people were texting him and were like, “Dude, your mom tweeted about you.” And so, Peter has tweeted a photo recreating his pose. And he wrote, “That was my mom. Sometimes the people we love do things that hurt us without realizing it. Let’s turn this around. I respect and believe women. I never have and never will support #HimToo. I’m a proud Navy vet, cat dad, and ally. Also, Twitter, your meme game is on point.”  


And so, I mean I think this is the best possible outcome of how this #HimToo tweet could’ve gone. And I love it when people just grab the opportunity to say a good thing when the Twitter spotlight is on them. So, good on you, Peter. Sorry about your mom.  


[cutesy bells ring]  


On every episode of Backtalk, Amy and I have an extremely important argument. You’ve heard us argue about the Golden Girls, about what kind of noodles are the best noodles. And last week, we argued about which is better, being a cat person or being a plant person? I was team cats, and Amy was for the plants. And drum roll. [actual drum roll] It was so close. It’s super, super close, but cat person won by just just a hair. Just a cat hair.  


BOTH: [laugh]  


AMY: My favorite part about our new voting thing where you text us, is that people will text us the reason why they voted. And we got so many amazing responses! Some of my favorites for why they voted plant person was because— And it was a very logistical thing. A lot of people are just allergic to cats.  


DAHLIA: [laughs]  


AMY: Which I totally, I feel you! That’s one of the big reasons why I am a dog and plant person, ‘cause I’m allergic to cats. One of my favorite comments is like so, we asked them, “Why did you pick plant person?” They’re like, “Because plants make a house smell wonderful, and cats make a house smell awful.” [laughs]  


DAHLIA: Awww.  


AMY: Facts! Straight facts. [laughs]  


DAHLIA: Well, I have to say I’m looking at all the comments. I think the plants had, the plant team had funnier comments by far.  


AMY: [laughs]  


DAHLIA: But people are being very sweet about cats as well. Here’s one. “Cats are so sweet and cute, and I can never keep plants alive.”  


AMY: [laughs] I just really love it when you all weigh in on it and then tell us the reasoning behind it. ‘Cause I had so much fun reading about people’s reasonings behind what they chose.  


DAHLIA: I feel like every time when we get into Amy vs. Dahlia, I end up at the end, Amy, on your side. I’m not totally a plant person, but I do really like this comment.  


AMY: [laughs]  


DAHLIA: It says, “My dog hates cats, but honestly, cats have come and gone. But plants are forever.”  


BOTH: [laugh]  


AMY: Wait! I also just found one that I really like. I don’t know which one this corresponds with, if this person voted cat or plant person. But all it says is, “They are great listeners and never run away.”  


BOTH: [laugh]  


DAHLIA: I think it must be plants. Cats definitely run away.  


BOTH: [laugh]  


AMY: Yeah.  


DAHLIA: This week, we have hopefully an equally compelling argument. We loved seeing how many people felt very passionately about cats vs. plants. And this week, we bring you which is the worst way that marketers use faux feminism to trick you into buying? Amy, begin please.  


AMY: All right. So, the reason why I thought about this is that I often think about capitalism and spending power and how folks use marketplace feminism to frame their products so that it forces us to spend money on their things. And one of the things that really irks me was products that are marketed in this very specific way, is how it’s so often tied to genitals! And vaginas and vaginal imagery. As if only people who have vaginas are women. It just feels very essentialist and very binary. And it just feels very basic, I think. And it doesn’t, I don’t think it does anything to sort of move us forward as a movement. I mean I know that marketplace feminism doesn’t really do that on a whole, but especially when the marketing and imagery and the thought behind it is so tied to genitals.  


And the other thing about the genital things is that it’s not very inclusive because so often, the way they portray genitals or even when they do like boobies, is that the nipples are really pink. [laughs] Or you know, the vulva is pink but. It’s there are many of us with brown nipples and brown vulvas, and we have not been seeing enough of a representation. So, not only is it super binary and essentialist, but it’s not even inclusive of different colors of the spectrums of these types of genitals.  


So, my argument is that the worst of marketplace feminism has to do with its reliance on talking about genitals or using genitals as a marketing too.  


DAHLIA: I hate to give you extra points, Amy, but I had something I wanted to say! Which is that this issue that you’re talking about, representation of all genitals of all colors is, even in medical textbooks, what you see is white vaginas and white breasts, to the point that doctors aren’t always being trained what illnesses look like on the skin of non-white people. I know we’re talking just sort of in terms of feminism and marketplace feminism specifically, but I couldn’t help but get more serious for a second. It’s fucked up! It’s fucked up that when people think about what vulvas and vaginas and breasts look like, their mind immediately goes to a particular kind of body and particular skin colors and all of that. It’s fucked up. But let me argue my argument now.  


One of the things that I think is so annoying in commercials that are for women, this faux feminism for women, is these ads of women in bathtubs and maybe they’re on a nice couch. Or maybe they’re in their nice nightgowns and pajamas. And the ad is like, “Treat yourself. You work hard. You deserve it. Don’t you deserve something special? Here. Have some light calorie, no calorie indulgent chocolate. You deserve it but not the calories,” you know. It’s like you deserve to taste something good but not the nutrition. You definitely don’t need the nutrition part of the food you’re eating.  


One, this idea that you can treat yourself via capitalism to restore your energy and feel good so that you can go back to your job as part of capitalism, one, that’s so fucked up! And then two, of course, the idea that self-care, that actually taking care of your body or your life or yourself equals buying chocolate and bath bombs. Which of course are very, very nice. But you know, when you’re talking about what you deserve, really? You’re gonna say what I deserve is some chocolate? Uh-uh! You deserve a pay raise.  


AMY: I hate to also give you points.  


DAHLIA: [laughs]  


AMY: But yeah, I think that those marketing tactics are fucked up because it’s just meant to placate you. It’s meant to treat a symptom but not the root cause of it. Like maybe the reason why you need to employ so much self-care is because like cis hetero white supremacist patriarchy is bullshit and makes you feel like shit every fucking day! So, the least, the very least you can do is to just sit in a large body of water to not think of anything, right? Instead of thinking about overtaking, creating a serious revolution, why don’t you have some of this calorie-free chocolate?  


DAHLIA: Oh my god. Are You saying that it’s trying to appease us from taking over? ‘Cause they’re like, “Settle down. Have some chocolate. Don’t get too mad about capitalism.”  


AMY: But marketplace feminism is very infuriating! And I just think that these tactics are kind of lulling us into this belief that we can buy our way into freedom, essentially. And we wanna hear what you think is the worst tactic. Is it genitals?  


BOTH: [laugh]  


AMY: Or this notion of self-care?  


DAHLIA: So, hopefully you have saved us in your phone, but our number is 503-855-6485. And if you text the word “marketplace,” one word, marketplace, to us over at 503-855-6485, we’ll text you back. And you can vote for which of these is the most insidious tactic.  


Also, if you added us to your phone, great. Because we’re gonna send you a text when this episode goes live, which is kind of confusing that I’m saying this in the episode because you’re already listening to it.  


AMY: [chuckles]  


DAHLIA: But! Hopefully you got a text from us.  


[cutesy bells ring]  


Backtalk is produced by non-profit independent Bitch Media. Our feminist response to pop culture is entirely funded by our community. Love our work and wanna pitch in? Become a member. Join hundreds of fellow listeners as a member of The Rage, and when you do, you’ll receive a special mug, a subscription to Bitch magazine in print and digital, and other snazzy benefits. Become a member today at  


AMY: And we wanna take this time to thank folks who are reading and reviewing us on iTunes. Again, that really helps us boost visibility and people to find our podcast. I wanted to read a review that we got recently from username V Sy, and it says in part, “I love how beautifully unapologetic and fierce this podcast is. It is a great way for me to catch up on current events without having to go down the endless downward spiral of news on social media.” [laughs]  


Yes! I’m really glad that we are able to provide that because it does sometimes feel like an endless spiral of news. And often it’s bad or disheartening news. And I mean I think that for Dahlia and I, doing this work can be tough for us because we are often having to read the cycle of shitty and horrific news that comes through. But if we can help you in some way parse and understand or process and analyze current events, this is what we’re here for and what we love doing. And so, that’s why we love reading feedback, to see that you all are listening, and it’s helpful to you. So, please if you have a minute, head over to iTunes and rate and review the podcast to help us out.  


[cutesy bells ring]  


DAHLIA: Amy and I spend the weekend before new episodes of Backtalk texting each other and trying to figure out what we wanna talk about and what feels most pressing to us. And of course, the confirmation of Judge Brett Kavanaugh is very pressing and very horrible, and both of us were like, I don’t even know how we’re gonna talk about it. I’m so tired. I’m so sad. I feel so terrible. But that got me thinking about just talking about feelings in general, specifically anger, having to do with the confirmation hearings but also just in this political moment. And I was thinking about it because first of all, last week, Saturday Night Live came back for its new season, and they started their cold open by making fun of Brett Kavanaugh. Here’s how it started.  


[recorded clip starts with audience cheers and applause as Matt Damon enters the scene as Kavanaugh]  






[audience laughs]  


CHAIRMAN GRASSLEY: —Kavanagh, are you ready to begin?  


KAVANAUGH: [sniffs] Oh, hell yeah. [audience laughs] Lemme tell you this: I’m gonna start at an 11. [chuckling] I’m gonna take you to about a 15 real quick!! [laughter] First of all, I showed this speech to almost no one. [laughter] Not my family, not my friends, not even PJ or Tobin or Squee. [laughter] This is my speech. There are others like it, but this is mine. [laughter] I wrote it myself last night while screaming into an empty bag of Doritos. [laughter]  


DAHLIA: So, this cold open really focuses on Brett’s irrational rage. That is something that you could not help but see how much Brett—I’m gonna call him Brett just to disrespect him slightly—you know, how angry he was, and how much that was part of his performance when he testified before the Judiciary Committee. And the New York Times has reported that that was actually intentional strategy. So, Don McGahn, the White House lawyer, met with Brett and his wife alone, and he said to them, “The only way to save this nomination is to show the senators how you really feel, to channel your outrage and your indignation, and to channel that outrage into denying these charges.” And so, the New York Times says Bret didn’t even need convincing. He just came out there ready to yell.  


And I think that that is so striking in comparison to Dr. Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony earlier that day, which was, I mean it’s like using words like brave and strong just feel inadequate to talk about that moment. But the thing that I think about a lot when I’m remembering watching her testimony is how aware she was of her own emotions, of the emotions of everyone around her, and how much she had to manage that to make herself seem believable. I’m remembering a time when they were discussing when they’re gonna break for lunch, and she said something like, “Oh well, you know, I was hoping we could eat soon. Does that suit you?” You know, the way she’s just so accommodating and so, I mean, I don’t wanna say not in touch with her anger but that that’s not the performance that she’s giving. While at the same time— And she has to go through all of these hoops that she has to seem respectable, seem polite, seem honest, seem smart, all of these things. She has to manage her image to be believed. Where Brett can just come out and start yelling. And because he’s so angry, he must be telling the truth.  


AMY: I mean that’s why, in a way, after the hearing, a lot of people were saying, well, like they should just withdraw Brett’s nomination because he performed so badly. Why are they even trying to push him through? But I think that the people who felt that way are kind of giving the system too much credit. Like when Brett is performing that outrage, I mean it is a performance, but it’s also not a performance. I think that’s just probably his baseline personality. But it is like an enactment of white male entitlement. But white male entitlement is, I think nowadays, is really much like it just correlates directly to white male outrage. So, those two things go hand in hand for white men because they feel anger and outrage towards this notion that they are, in a way, their entitlements are being taken away from them.  


And I think that when we saw him testifying, it was him saying— And not just him, but GOP who were on that committee “questioning” him but also being on this side. Like with Lindsey Graham and all those others are decrepit pieces of shit who were also yelling, you know, they were just like, “Oh my god. This is such a fucking disgrace. I’m so sorry we dragged you out here to do this.” They are also having this white male outrage because they felt like their white male entitlement was being threatened. And I think that watching them do this and then seeing how nobody was backing down, just really goes to underscore how the system was not made for people who are marginalized. Yes, Dr. Blasey Ford is a white woman, but she’s still a woman, right? And this system wasn’t made to protect women. And to the point where women on the committee voted for the confirmation of Brett against own interests because patriarchy is still so strong and in a way that they have been forced to support white male entitlement.  


I mean it’s really hard watch the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh and not just feel completely broken by it. And I think that the only way that I’m able to understand this is to think about how the system in which this white male entitlement prevailed is because the system was built for it. And I don’t know how else to sort of deal with this feeling that I’m having. I’m having an anger about it, and I have to think about how do I sort of make this anger into a productive anger?  


You’re talking about how when Christine Blasey Ford was on the stand— Or she wasn’t on the stand. She wasn’t on trial. She was just testifying.  


DAHLIA: Right, right.  


AMY: I think we have to remember that she had to be so cool, calm, and collected while talking about a thing that really traumatized her deeply. And even as she was talking about the trauma, she was—like you’re saying—so fucking pleasant. Like, she is not entitled to this white rage. I mean I think that we often we do talk about white women and their rage, but when white women have their rage, it is in contrast to people of color. But here we see a clear dichotomy of white male rage versus white woman rage. And it was just like so, I don’t know. The only thing I can think of is the word disheartening because to see how she had to sort of demure to his outrage and to think that even him behaving in such a way, it just showed how, to a certain segment of people in this country, that means that actually that is the reason why he deserves to be on the Supreme Court.  


DAHLIA: Yeah. Well, it’s like how Trump says these horrible quotes like, “Well, there was no obstruction. There was no collusion. I fight back, if that’s what you mean.” It’s like this idea of fighting back seems to be—no pun intended—trumps all other forms of political engagement, that what is most powerful is how loud your voice can be and how much you can ignore other people while you’re talking.  


AMY: Yeah! And that’s a tactic that’s working for them. And we’re just kind of like having to stand on the sidelines and take it.  


I just, I— [heavy sigh] I really am just so exacerbated by this whole situation. And I think that not only is it easy, but it’s also comfortable in a way. And it’s so fucked up to say: it’s easy and comfortable to just feel disenfranchised at this point. And I think the difference for me was that, for a long time, to feel disenfranchised felt very uncomfortable and really rage inducing. I mean we talk about being rage cheerleaders all the time, but now it’s to the point where I’m getting, you know, I’m reaching a boiling point where I feel resigned now, and I don’t know what to do with that feeling. And I don’t know what productive rage looks like because even somebody who experienced trauma while talking about something that happened at the hands of this person who was going to be possibly admitted to the Supreme Court, like she had to suppress her rage. What are we supposed to do with our rage at this point, then?  


DAHLIA: Yeah, and like that question of what is productive rage I think is so timely. You know, just in this past month or so, there’ve been several books written by women about women’s rage. Rebecca Traister has a book called Good And Mad: The Revolutionary Power Of Women’s Anger. Soraya Chemaly has a book called Rage Becomes Her: The Power Of Women’s Anger. And Brittney Cooper has a book called Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower.  


So, there’s all of this thought going around about women’s rage and men’s rage. But I think that question is, how does that rage become productive? I think that’s really hard because, Amy, it’s exactly what you’re saying is how I feel, that for a long time—Not to say, I love being a rage cheerleader. I’m always pissed off about many things. But you know, I think the thing that’s very hard to accept, because it’s completely a mind fuck, but is, I think, the country that we live in, is that—and this is actually what I was feeling watching Kavanagh’s confirmation, you know—the GOP doesn’t care about a lot of things. And so, if you’re talking about productive rage, now I’m trying to think about what can happen from this rage. Because of course, totally, register to vote. And the midterms are soon. That’s gonna be great. I’m very excited. And it’s apparent that the GOP doesn’t really care about things like logic or internal consistency or fairness. You know, the GOP doesn’t care.  


And so, I’m starting to feel this sense , you’re saying, of outrage fatigue because no matter how well you, how nicely you look when you show up to argue and how well-mannered you keep your tone and how nicely you negotiate when you’re gonna have lunch times, they still don’t care! They’re still gonna be like, you know to Dr. Christine Blasey Ford, the Republicans said, “Well, we believe her. Except about the part about who did it. That part, we think she’s confused.”  


AMY: So, Susan Collins, who was one of the senators who was maybe unsure about how she was voting, she’s a Republican senator from Maine who ended up voting to confirm Brett Kavanaugh. Even for her, she just was like, you know, she believes Dr. Blasey Ford, but she doesn’t believe that what happened to her was at the hands of Brett Kavanaugh. So, it’s like this notion that they’re able to believe to like the ceiling, but then they’re unable to apply that belief to the person who is seeking that power. It’s just so disingenuous. And I think that really just goes to show how we think about who’s allowed to be angry. Brett Kavanaugh’s definitely allowed to be angry. Like fucking Lindsey Graham is allowed to be angry and yell at his fellow senators and yell national television about how the whole entire process is a farce. But like nobody else was allowed to get angry.  


For example, when Senator Amy Klobuchar had questioned Brett Kavanaugh during the hearing about f he’s ever gotten blackout drunk, and then Kavanagh was just being so disrespectful and was just like, “Well, have you? Have you?” Like in that moment, Klobuchar, I think, had every right to be angry and show her anger, but she didn’t! You know, because we still obviously live in a time where only certain people are allowed to be angry and to show their anger in a very specific way, you know?  


And it isn’t just about the Supreme Court hearings. It’s also about daily interactions. I often think about what it would have meant if any person of color showed up anywhere and was angry, you know? We do talk about on this podcast about what does Black male anger or Black women anger look like? And we talk about that in terms of police use of force against Black folks. How are they allowed to behave and how they aren’t allowed to behave. And then it puts their lives at risk. And I think that I keep harping back at this because this is something I really have to wrestle with. But I think that it’s because we live in a country where the systems of power are built for white people, and white men in particular, and they are allowed to show the full range of emotions and still be highly respected and be confirmed with the fucking Supreme Court and to be voted to be the President of the United States of America. They’re still given the opportunity because they are allowed to have their full humanity on display and to be complete human beings.  


Whereas you go down the list of people who are not allowed to express their full humanity, and I just, I don’t know what to do with that! I don’t know how to change the system without just, you know— [laughs] I don’t know what— I just have the most fucked up feelings. I just think that like, how do we just get rid of white men?  


AMY: [laughs]  


DAHLIA: How do we just get rid of— You know, how do we get rid of their sense of entitlement, their sense of anger at us for wanting equity? How do we fix this? And I know that we talk about like, well, just go out and vote. But you know what? People have been voting for a long time! And the reason why, in a way, we still feel disenfranchised even if we’re voting is because the systems of the electorate is also unfair, you know? There are people who are legally disenfranchised or have been historically and systemically disenfranchised from voting. So, I don’t know what to do with these feelings except to I don’t know. Just sit in my bottle of rage and like get high so that I don’t have feeling?  


DAHLIA: [laughs]  


AMY: ‘Cause I mean, Dahlia and I talk about that too. But I think maybe a good, productive first step for me is to recognize that you know what? These systems that confirm people like Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, these systems that put people like Donald Trump in the office, put people like Lindsey Graham in the office, who put fucking people like Jeff Session in their positions of power were systems that were not built for people like us to thrive in. So, I think when you’re able to understand that at a base level, that rage can feel productive because then, when we can think of ways to usurp that power. Maybe one day we will get rid of the electoral college, because you know what? Donald Trump didn’t fucking win the popular vote.  


And I think that we have to start thinking outside of the box of how do we work within the system and to really seriously chip away at the system. And I don’t have the answers to how we do that productively, but I think we have to like, the first step is to just recognize it. Yes, vote. But vote how? And how are the systems in which we’re voting, how are they fucked up? And how do we teach the future generations that are going to run for office, how do we teach them to not work within the system but to break the system so that they could open the gates so that more non-white men are in positions of power where they can share that power with their communities.  


[cutesy bells ring]  


DAHLIA: At the end of every episode of Backtalk, we share something we’re reading, watching, and listening to. And Amy is first up with the read pick.  


AMY: So, my read pick is an article that was on Huffington Post. It is called Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong by Michael Hobbes. It is a really great piece talking about how, not just culturally, but also within the professional practicing of medicine, we’ve talked about obesity or weight in such a detrimental way that’s been really harmful to people and how it’s unproductively harmful. And I think— I just started this piece. I’m working my way through reading it. But I think the gist of it is that, this notion that when we think of people who are overweight versus people who are not overweight, who’s actually healthy? And the way we shame overweight people, it doesn’t do anything to help anybody because in fact, weight is not a indicator of health. And we’ve been thinking about this incorrectly for a very, very long time. So, I think this is a piece that’s worth checking out in terms of talking about health, in terms of talking about body positivity. And I think that this burden often falls even heavier on—no pun intended—on women as well because there’s this pressures to fit within this specific beauty standard. So, please check Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong on Huffington Post. It is a piece by Michael Hobbes.  


DAHLIA: Yeah, I read that, and it is so fascinating.  


I have the watch pick this week. I, over the course of the weekend, quickly devoured Season 2 of Big Mouth over on Netflix. Big mouth is, it’s not actually rated NC 17, but it is kind of like a gross-out cartoon. But it’s about a group of 7th graders who are led through puberty by their sort of guardian angel hormone monsters who are full of the sickest, funniest gross-out advice. Also, there’s a special guest appearances by the shame wizard and the depression kitty. So, it’s all about speaking of feelings. It’s all about teenagers and their feelings. Maya Rudolph and Jenny Slate do two of the voices, and I think they’re the funniest characters. But this the show is just like, every once in a while there will be a joke that I just am so open-mouthed shocked by. That’s how I much I like it. It’s definitely on the grosser side. But of course, a cartoon about puberty would have to be gross. So, it’s called Big Mouth over at Netflix.  


AMY: And I have been listen pick. I have got a track from a hip hop artist from Malaysia. Her name is Zameara, and I’m really loving it. The song is called Z vs Z. Thanks for listening. 


DAHLIA: Thanks for listening. 


[Z vs Z plays] 


♪ Destined for a greatness 

All my life was painted 

How to make a mark if these brushes been stainless 

How do I move on if this heart remains vengeful? 

I forgive the old me but sometimes I forget to 

Be a little strong 

See I’m bigger than my wrongs 

Lying to his face but I’m honest in the song 

And I’m honest when I say, the drug can really change 

Breakin us apart be it money, power or the ‘caine 

This ain’t meant for kids, lil house on the prairie 

Pourin out the past, you know damn well that shit is scary 

Shower me with green, you know that’s just the envy 

Cut me off the bill but they know they cannot end me 

Hard to piss me off when I be on my zen shit 

Used to ball the court now I’m watching by the benches 

Had to shift the views, turn the loss to wins 

So I wouldn’t change a thing even if I had the chance ho ♪ 


DAHLIA: Thanks for listening to Backtalk. This show is produced by Ashley Duchemin. Bitch Media is a reader- and listener-supported feminist nonprofit. If you wanna support the show and our work, please head over to and donate.  


♪ They never knew a diamond in the making when they saw one 

They only knew bidness when the stakes in, that was all front 

Lil me, I was sixteen, with big dreams, so they all jumped 

Fought back, when the OP dead, like a talk back yeah they all stunned ♪ 

by Amy Lam
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Amy Lam was a contributing editor and co-host of Backtalk at Bitch Media. Find her at & Twitter / Instagram.