You see, if I was a guy, and I was sitting here with a cigarette in my hand, grabbing my crotch and talking about how I make music ‘cause I love fast cars and fucking girls, you’d call me a rock star. But when I do it in my music and in my videos, because I’m a female, because I make pop music, you’re judgmental, and you say that it is distracting. I’m just a rock star.
Are you also a feminist?
I’m not a feminist - I, I hail men, I love men. I celebrate American male culture, and beer, and bars and muscle cars…
It’s not that I expected Lady Gaga to become some feminist icon, but what’s with the hating on feminism and perpetuation of the tired pissed-off-man-hater stereotype? Ugh.
68 Comments Have Been Posted
A N N A replied on
She's young.* That's what I keep thinking. That may be why it's such a binary issue for her. I remember girls like this in college, who were too cool for feminism, yet uncool enough to ingratiate. She's also too cool for pants, but that's off-topic. :)
It sucks that she's willing to point out the double standard, but quick to indicate she's not one of THOSE women. And look at what she reduces "American male culture" to. Ugh, again.
*I know, I know... there are plenty of 23-year olds who are wiser than this, who don't see black-and-white and over-compensate by hailing males. All of *you* are fierce.
Lady Gaga - Feminism
Kris replied on
"I am in my 20's and don't
Anonymous replied on
"I am in my 20's and don't get why so many people,esp woman think feminism is bad": many good and bad reasons. Many people will call their differing views feminist, and some are quite objectionable. I used to consider myself a feminist, but I can't call myself that anymore, I'll stick with humanist.
If feminism was all about giving women the human rights, dignity, respect and self determination they so completely deserve, then I'd be all over it. If it was about moving our culture forward, getting past old patriarchal social baggage, religious backwardness and limiting gender roles, that would be great, and I'd want to identify with that.
But it isn't, the feminism I encounter seems to be more about judging and criticizing me because I happen to have been born with a penis and am attracted to hot young women. It demands I accept responsibility for the indignities and injustices women face which I have nothing to do with.
I live in South Africa, the plight of many women here is miserable and desperate. I work for a non-profit and do what little I can to address very real problems with access to education, yet all feminists seem to want to do is snark about pretty women on TV, or complain that some inept guy hit on them.
Men like and value the company of pretty young women. That's why they're cast in ads, hired to face the public and shown on TV. That's fine. Get over it. There are real problems to be addressed.
Response to Poster In South Africa
Anonymous replied on
I disagree completely. I don't know what form of feminism you have encountered but it certainly is not the feminism I have come to learn. Feminism stretches far far beyond simple media portrayals, although for us in the United States we lack as much blatant discrimination, therefore choose to focus on many aspects of subtle and latent discrimination or neomodern sexism. So yes, your absolutely right we need to correct a great deal of problems that are so much more important than media, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't comment on this as well.
This points to a section in Fight Like a Girl, in which the author describes her frustration of how as president of CA-NOW, her first media appearance was focused on whether feminists could wear makeup or not.
Just because media imaging is an interest of the public and we choose to respond to this does not mean we are not responding to other crises. As twenty year old feminist in college, I am in Amnesty International, STAND, Girl Child Network and Invisible Children organizations helping to fight for rights of not only women but children and persons male and female. Most feminists I know do the same. I hope not to be reduced to an angry irrational woman simply because I find Lady Gaga's ideas of feminism frustrating, just as I find yours.
As a male do you not feel insulted as well that she has reduced male behavior to drinking beer and driving cool cars? Clearly you are much more interesting, compassionate and intelligent than this, as all men are. Feminism argues precisely as you have stated, the fight for an egalitarian relationship between all "genders" and particularly with third wave feminism showing images of the diversity of all people. What you have come to learn about feminism is simple backlash that has not come from true feminists.
Interesting fact as well; reported in Ms. magazine in the summer issue of 2009, "Proving what we have known all along, a new study finds that feminists don't hate-or even dislike-men. According to researchers from University of Houston-Downtown, "The belief that feminists dislike or resent men finds no basis in our data." In contrast, women and men who identify as non-feminist are more likely to express hostility toward men."
Also, any article I have ever read from a feminist book does not say men explicitly try to oppress women, it is not as though we believe all men are evil. It is the fact that a system has been created and it is important for us to recognize and abolish it. Any group - white, heterosexual, young, able bodied, upper class - that has power over another group simply maintains this power and has difficultly letting power "slip" to others.
On your final comment, men value the company of "pretty young woman" because these specific women are given value by their objectification. Do you think a man would not find interest in the company of a woman that is not in her youth? By putting youth on such a pedestal we undervalue a diverse group of women who have a great deal to contribute to society. Youth isn't a natural obvious value, it is completely socially constructed and it is done so in a way that is damaging to all.
Men like the company of
Anonymous replied on
Men like the company of attractive, lovely young women for obvious reasons. It has mostly to do with the procreation of the species. We like what we like. Should we be faulted for that? Women like attractive men. Should certain men be affronted because they don't recieve the attention they feel entitled to?
Feminists are up in arms about 'objectification'. What a bunch of hypocrites! Women are drawn to the 'unrealistic ideal' of feminine beauty - just like men - but for different reasons. Feminine beauty represents a type of power. Simply put, being pretty gets you stuff. No matter how intellectual, no matter how much outrage you project - when given the opportunity to use the advantage that feminie beauty affords - you will seize such opportunity without hesitation. I've yet to see a woman conceed such advantages. So don't be so high and mighty. Shakespeare's sister is long dead. You no longer live in a doll house. You can stop being outraged. It makes you seem like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Also, spend the day observing any family law court across the US - then come back to this forum and talk to me about gender injustice. What about selective services? I don't see a single feminist getting in line to balance those uneven scales. How many women out there relish saying "In the manner I'm accustomed to living"? Alimony? Where's the outrage about alimony? Since when should able-bodied adults get monthly stipends from former lovers? Divide the assets and move on. How entitled you are! How full of shit you are!
One last thing...
The big corporations who pay for mass media aren't conspiring to keep women subserviant. They are interested in profits - more than anything else. If the imagery they use in marketing didn't work to sell products they wouldn't use it. That's the bottom line. Feminists are a little confused about what begets what. Also look who runs the fashion industry - who are the worst culprits when it comes to starving women into impossible sizes? It certainly isn't beer drinking, fast car driving John Q Douchbag american male (wow Lady Gaga - what a perception to have of men). Likely, its some ego-maniacal gay martinet or some fashionista bitch queen.
To sum it up, why do you think so many women shy away from feminism? Besides not wanting to appear bitter, disgruntled and/or unsatisfied? Because they like what's going on. Nobody's holding women back from getting educated, having a career, being an entrepreneur or seeking public office.
You're the angry one
Yoyo replied on
Hey you, she's not "outraged"; she actually wrote a very calm, nicely worded explanation of mis-representation of the meaning of feminism with no malice or anger in it. You're the one who responded in anger. Obviously you have had issues in the past but there's no need to respond in such a hostile and defensive manner. You also seem focused on your right to pursue what you see as the biological imperative to screw young hotties. Nobody's stopping you, including the writer above. So rut away, dude, if you can. We're all going to die anyway!
Peace and love.
N replied on
I'm not sure where this hostility comes from, but if you are actually looking to discuss some of the things you brought up, I have a few thoughts. I should say that I am, in fact, a gay man and a proud feminist.
1. I'm not sure I know what you are talking about specifically in regards to men being sexually attracted to women. I've read a lot of feminist theory and I don't ever recall a woman claiming that men's sexual attraction to women should be punished. Please clarify. You may be thinking of feminists like Catherine Mackinnon who have analyzed the eroticiziation of *violence* against women in pornography, for example, but other than that I can't make heads or tales of your comment...I certainly don't know what any of this has to do with the "procreation of the species."
2. The "You" to whom you refer in the next paragraph seems to be "every woman." You've yet to see a woman revoke the privileges of conforming to female beauty? Well, perhaps you have a limited social circle. I can introduce you to *many* women--lesbian and straight, transgendered and cisgendered--who challenge standards of female beauty every day: from not shaving their armpits, to dressing in masculine clothing, to simply refusing the emaciated standard of pop star "beauty" we see *everywhere.* Simply having a healthy attitude toward eating is, in its own way, a resistance to popular beauty myths.
3. As for family law, I don't claim to be an expert, but have read a little about it. I think that is important to remember both the historical and contemporary gender arrangements that reinforce the need for alimony (which is often times *temporary* in situations where an unemployed spouse would be cut off altogether): For instance most of America's unpaid domestic labor is *still* done by women. I'm not really prepared to have a full debate about alimony laws--not least because they vary so widely from state to state--but what is most striking to me is the vehemence with which you lump all feminists, all women, together as having the same position on the topic...which is simply wrong. Insert yourself into a real debate about the issue if you feel strongly about it, instead of fighting a straw-(wo)man.
4. Feminists by and large are not confused about how capitalism functions at the most basic level by which you described it. Again: who are you talking about? Who has characterized a group of old men sitting in a board room churning out sexist images to maintain control over their Betty Crocker housewives? I've never read any such accusation. In fact, the work of Jean Kilbourne might be a good place to start a discussion about advertising, image and profit. She understands why certain images of women circulate and that profit is the bottom line. Her project is to do a detailed reading of these images and ask consumers to resist mindless consumption so that those producing images, profiting from the images, hear resistance and feedback from their consumers. Rosemary Hennesey also does good work on how sexual identities function in late capitalism.
Feminism is multi-faceted; diverse; argumentative; non-linear; joyous; playful; productive; deconstructive; analytical; humorous; overlapping; social justice-oriented; evolving. It is a way of looking at the world. It is not content with the fact that Sarah Palin ran for Vice President. It is a way of hoping for a better world, a project that never comes to an end. "It" isn't even a single thing...feminism*s* would be more accurate. Don't try to reduce all feminist thought--in all of its glorious cacophony--to a stereotype. It makes you seem silly.
Re: I Love Hot Young Men!!!!!!!!!!
Lucretia Agrippina replied on
I can't help it--you are so whiny and irritating I have to reply...
I'm a radical feminist who loves hot young men. So what? Is that a problem? It would be if I decided to only hire hot young men, or only represent hot young men in key aspects of life--politics, science, media. It would also be a problem if I decided to severely restrict the de facto rights and privileges of not-so-hot men (fat, old, bald, ugly...).
Wanting to date and sleep with hot young men is not a problem, but changing all of society's standards to suit only the set of (all women) + (only hot young men) would be wrong. The men would call me a misandranist (sic?). My need to see/hear/pretend to sleep with hot young men does not supersede the need for all men (including ugly South African threadcrappers...) to have freedom of expression and public participation. Men have assumed that their need to see hot young women supersedes the need for all women to have access to freedom of expression and public participation. That's why we are having problems. And whether you like it or not, portrayals of only one group of women (hot & young) affect all women, and constrain their equal access to many benefits of modern society. When you take a personal sexual preference and project it onto an entire population the way men do with women, you run the risk of committing a grievous injustice against the slighted party--that's what men have done and that's why feminists are mad about it.
The argument that there are more important things to do is not a sufficient argument. If we took a strictly Rawlsian approach to issues we would put every bit of our effort into African orphans, and not into football games and magnificent displays of penile--I mean military--strength. Why is it that when we are talking about women's issues we must focus on only the least well off? When applied only to women, doesn't the logic seem suspect?
I wonder why you are even on this thread. You seem to lack the most basic level of empathy even though you claim to work for some world-saving NGO that "really cares about people" as opposed to all those dirty feminists. This is pretty characteristic of the male reaction to things women say--and I am not hopeful for men in the long run unless they can figure out how to get along with us better. You are not special, you are not god, and you should learn to treat your fellow humans especially--women--with more respect.
Judy replied on
Thank you for this comment. I am incredibly disheartened as well by those who berate feminism based on little evidence or actual knowledge of where the word and the movement stems from.
Best 'f-word' out there deserves a fuckin' shout!
in reply to South African man
Anonymous replied on
I was extremely happy to read that you consider yourself a humanist. You see because while I am a girl, and I have grown up in one of the most gender equal and opportunistically equal societies that exist today, I can't go one day without almost breaking down to tears about the lack of rights that so many people face today. However, in saying that, a vast majority of the victims of horrific crimes today happen to be women.
Take the Sex Slave Industry for example. Approximately 70%+ of the victims are female. And the majority of those are youths. That just sickens me. It chills me to the very core of my being that someone (unfortunately probably a man) thinks that it is okay, even JUSTIFIES the concept of "buying" a person. You cannot buy someone, because no one can sell someone, as no one person belongs to any living person.
I'm sure that if you live in Africa, you've also heard of Female Genital Mutilation. Of course you have because its quite common in Africa. That is yet another horrific practice that girls (not boys) have to face, something that threatens their health, their happiness, their comfort and even their sanity! This is an act of evil in my opinion, regardless of whatever ignorant superstitions exist around the practice. If something can cause that much damage and that much pain to its victims, it should not exist and must be erradicated from the face of our earth. On top of rape, slavery, abuse, domestic violence,forced marriages, demeaning 'gender roles' and societal limitations (not to mention all of the other horrifying living conditions that all impoverished people face), you can put female gender mutilation on top of the whole abusive pie of cruelty towards females.
Now I'm not trying to give you a speech on Feminism because I think that all people regardless of their gender/race/colour etc deserve the best possible life that can be offered to them, given their circumstances. However I think that you need to reconsider being a Feminist, because you can be a Humanist as well as a Feminist, in fact they go quite nicely together. I think that you need to understand that (although it is in no way your fault) women have been treated and still are treated like lower entities by many societies in the world, and this is why so many women today are angry and tense about the whole situation. They are enraged for the same reason that black people are enraged at the way that their ancestors have been treated.
I am sorry if you have experienced feminists who have made you uncomfortable to the point of unidentifying yourself with them, but I can assure you that those feminists do not speak for the rest of us, because I am not here to criticize anyone if they believe so fully in complete equality as you clearly do. I am not here to criticize people who feel we need to eliminate the damaging concepts about women. The only people that I will criticize are those who don't care about the plight of women, and those who strive to strengthen gender gaps and agree with the horrifying way that women have been/are treated in parts of the world. Regardless of who a person is, if they believe that women are in any way inferior to men, I will definately criticize them.
Personally, I think that women look on feminism as a bad thing because they associate being a feminist with being a bitch (which is entirely not true), and because they are not directly affected by the seriously damaging affects of inequality, and like a lot of people, want to pretend like the issue is resolved. Well I'd like to think that more than the next person, just like I'd like to think that there aren't sweat shops, or modern slaves or people dying of hunger, but these things are REALITY and we cannot turn our backs on them. The feminist movement should become a HUMANIST movement, and it should speed up, not slow down, until EVERYONE in the world has at least basic human rights and living conditions.
A Brief Emotional Explosion & A Gift
Iris Chamberlain replied on
"Simply put, being pretty gets you stuff. No matter how intellectual, no matter how much outrage you project - when given the opportunity to use the advantage that feminie [sic] beauty affords - you will seize such opportunity without hesitation."
This is why I hated being a woman for so long. Because some men, maybe a lot of them, maybe only a few, assume that I AM THIS. I used to wish I could chop my breasts off just to get away from it. I've realized over time that these people are ignorant and hateful because of their experiences and really I should pity them instead of get angry.
Still, sometimes I read the comment section and get furious, so I made this as a present for you guys:
Feel free to let me know if you think I'm being ignorant somewhere here...
Lastly, you people are AMAZING! I'm so proud to see such rational and calm responses to something so obviously filled with personal issues and passion. I'm so impressed by everyone who responded.
A man replied on
Is it possible...that maybe, just maybe, that the tone in these posts are confrontational? Fair enough, this would be the appropriate forum for that, but one should really consider how the message of feminism comes across to the rest of the readers. Is the goal to preach to the choir or to inform the uninformed?
First and foremost,
There really are biological factors at play when men seek younger women. To deny this is absolutely ludicrous. Males will naturally search for the most fertile mate, not the supposed company of this alternative, younger woman. This action is literally hardwired and to attempt to socially deconstruct it is rather irrational. It has been two-hundred-thousand years since the Cro-Magnon era. Before this, we were arguably chimpanzees. (I KNOW, ANOTHER DAY lol)
Arguing for alimony?! Really... espousing the perpetuation of alimony does the feminist campaign for "equality" a massive disservice. No amount of statistical data can compensate for the injustice of one adult having to fund the "lifestyle" of another. This is literally tantamount to saying "marriage is unequally biased in favor of women, and we should keep it that way." (Alimony is not the same as child-support, which is definitely a legitimate request by the court and I strongly advocate that.)
In addition, men entering into marriage have to consider how badly the system treats them before they say "I do." The standard is now a premarital-agreement. It seems love literally has conditions now a days...
After reading a lot about girls who want to dress masculine, wear no makeup, and have short hair... I finally have to address this with a question:
Would you give TWO-SHITS (even one-shit!) if I wanted to dress feminine, wear makeup and grow my hair out? NO.
But if I did proceed, I certainly wouldn't expect much attention from women.
So if you really do not want attention from men, then do all that shit! I guarantee it will work.
Either way, nobody cares. The world really is indifferent to what you decide on wearing.
thx for the male input
Anonymous Inter... replied on
I don't think anyone is arguing against the male biological imperative, but in my experience dudes who bust out this old tirade are adopting it as an excuse for their own shitty behaviour. Boys will be boys, right? Meaning that acting like impulse driven adolescents for their entire lives is okay, right? Because they're men! Oh ho, those men! Such jokers, sex defines their entire existence, don't mind them! And those women, geez, so irrational for thinking they could behave any other way!
Seriously? It's 2010, our biological imperatives aren't the only thing driving us as a species anymore. Attitudes like that do justice to nobody.
Also, it's my understanding that alimony exists because many women still sacrifice their opportunities to establish themselves in careers to stay at home with the kids, and thus have no immediate source of income other than what's brought home by their spouse. Frankly I think it's reasonable that they should be supported for a period of time while they find their footing in the working world, and I would argue the same for a man if the woman was the one bringing home the bacon in the situation. Lifetime alimony, on the other hand, is insanity, and circumstances that would make that seem fair are eluding me.
And just a heads up, lots of women seem to dig guys who aren't afraid to wear eyeliner these days. Not saying I'd try it out on a daily basis since it ain't my cup of tea, but then again I like girls who dress like boys, so there's really no accounting for taste.
Feminism = hiding one's femininity?
Anonymous replied on
I would just like to address one thing that's been said here in response to the accusation that women use their feminine wiles to get things they don't deserve. Some people seem to be implying that if you don't dress like a boy and cover every hint of curves, you are in effect doing what this guy is accusing us of. I feel like that is an unfortunate point of view for a feminist to have. In my opinion, I should not have to cover my body or in any way hide the fact that I'm a woman in order to be treated equally. If somehow my body gives me some kind of advantage, that is not MY fault and I shouldn't have to address it. There is no article of clothing you can put on me or take off me that would make me any less of a woman. My body remains what it is. I feel like we should have the right to express our femininity without this kind of backlash. If men are somehow falling "prey" to it, that's their problem to solve, not ours.
Anonymous replied on
Can't men also get alimony? Or is that called something else? I can't think of specific examples, but I imagine it also exists. There are women who marry men who make less money than them or who do not work. It happens.
I don't believe either gender should get alimony though. The only exception I can think of is if the person was disabled in some way and would not be able to earn money on his/her own.
Furthermore, I think more people should sign prenuptial agreements. It's better to have a contract that you might never use than to not have it at all in a time of divorce.
Anonymously receiving alimony
Anonymous replied on
Well this comment is late coming, but I just saw this thread. I gave up my career for a few years to raise my daughter. I'm recently divorced. I receive alimony (yes, short-term). If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to make it financially. I am still struggling and have to rely on the generosity of others, but with both my daughter and I can survive. The decision for me to stay home was an economic one - one that my ex-husband and I made together. Not all careers pay well enough to cover the high price of childcare; and we both felt that my staying home and taking care of her myself for a few years would be in everyone's best interest (emotionally for her, and economically for us).
Alimony isn't always just about the woman. It usually is about the kids. You have to be able to care for yourself in order to care for your kids. Alimony is often a necessity for the transition that occurs in divorce. And life is way more complicated than many of you are trying to make it. What about those of us getting divorced who are pregnant? No one wants to hire a pregnant woman (or a woman with a young child for that matter.. or so I've been told!). What about jobs that require "recent" experience? Leaving work for a few years is tantamount to career suicide. No one wants to hire you if you haven't been working. It really is a catch 22. I'm going back to school to supplement my BA with a certificate in my field. We will see if that helps...
I get that men don't want to put out the money. I know several women who don't see a dime of child support or otherwise. Their lives were EXTREMELY difficult. Believe me - that wasn't/isn't fair to their kids, who more often than not experience an extreme change (as in severe drop) in lifestyle.
Shannon Drury replied on
In one breath, she calls out the sexist double standards in her profession. In the other, she shits on the movement that's been working hard to change them.
Somewhere in Manhattan, Courtney Love is pissed.
allie replied on
...and is it just me, or does she come off as completely full of herself? Anyone who can call themselves a rock star with a serious face (and is not Courtney Love) I just can't help rolling my eyes at.
I can't give her the excuse of being young, she's 23, not 14.
Done with Ga-Ga
Cookie replied on
As soon as she sat there with here sunglasses and drooled on about her "6th sense for pop culture" I just completly cut off Lady Gaga.
allie replied on
This interview has pretty much summed up why I don't like her. I never got what the big deal was--making mediocre pop music & dressing crazy doesn't make you a groundbreaking artist. Not wearing pants and wearing a lampshade on your head doesn't make you Madonna!
Bella replied on
Completely agreed. How stupid! She's just afraid of being labeled a 'man-hater' like so many other people. Plus, that was a pretty ridiculous stereotyping of men - usually the kind of thing 'man-haters' say.
I'm surprised you as well as
Anonymous replied on
I'm surprised you as well as others on here are missing the sarcasm in her voice.
Pretty much every woman
sa_bing replied on
Pretty much every woman under 30 I know refuses to call themselves "feminists." It still infuriates me every time I hear someone say it though. Feminist has become THE dirty word, yet everything these women have in their lives, every opportunity, every choice, is entirely the result of feminism.
I agree with you implicitly.
Melissa Jackson replied on
I agree with you implicitly. And to give you some hope, I am 24 and have considered myself a feminist since I was about 14. :) But I acknowledge that I (and most of my friends) am an unfortunate anomaly. I have been trying to aid the cause for years now...
I also find it very
allie replied on
I also find it very interesting that she is more than willing to align herself with the gay (presumably male) community, but doesn't want anything to do with the feminist (and/or lesbian, there is a lot of overlap) community.
RE: I also find it very
Anonymous replied on
who are the gays she aligns herself with? I assume its the fashion designers like jeremy Scott - (Sexibition, Live peep shows). In which case i like to think of such designers as really being heterosexual sex offenders. Though I havent studied enough about it to form a real opinion, just a judgment.
This is my mini feminist
LW replied on
This is my mini feminist blurb:
I am 21 and have always, always considered myself a feminist. Absolutely. The stigma against it disgusts me and certainly comes from a hateful and/or apathetic place; women who lazily, and perhaps desperately, buy into a patriarchal society, men who are insecure and stubborn, and both men and women who refuse to accept responsibility for behavior that sustains patriarchy and realize that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Unfortunately, Feminism depends on women being outspoken about offenses and injustices they witness or are inflicted with and so, because of its very nature, feminism has gained the unfavorable reputation for being aggressive, a power-grab movement, a blame movement. The first thing a feminist must do is accept responsibility for her/his actions and attitudes and examine where they come from. S/he must always be conscious of these actions and attitudes, like any other civic duty. Since it's all about defying social norms, being aware of one's own social conditioning and counteracting the uglier results of this social conditioning, many people perceive it as an attack or an accusation. It's counterinstinctual. It's supposed to be.
Lady GaGa is another sad and frustrating case of a young woman trying too hard to be "cool" according to the standards of a society that, ultimately, is not designed to serve her interests, totally buying into a patriarchal system, not knowing any better, or just not getting it. Way to perpetuate, GaGa.
I can oddly relate
Anonymous replied on
I grew up during the very "unfeminist" 1980s when the coolest person you could be was a hair-metal band groupie. I hated the 1990s at first, but then I went to Lilith Fair and Lalapalooza shows and had an "awakening." Now at my near-middle age, I am trying to kindly (not aggressively) let people know that feminism is not the dirty word that society and FOX News make it out to be, as if they are eternally living in the 1980s (and even the way-before-my-time 1950s). Maybe someday Lady Gaga and others like her will grow up, experience an awakening, and come to terms with its relevance. If it were not for feminism, she would not have experienced the success that she has now.
Comments from Facebook
Malori Maloney replied on
<p><b>Dana</b>: ah yes, another prominent woman who conflates feminism with man-hating. excellent. :(</p><p><b>Rebecca</b>: Sigh. Disappointing! Wish "non-feminist" gals would wise up that feminist does not = man-hater.</p><p><b>Maria</b>: Hey Lady Gaga! Ain't no hate for men in feminism. Only love for women. Feminism for forever!</p><p><b>Kristin</b>: yikes. this is so annoying.</p><p><b>Jennifer</b>: Oh geez...did she really have to use the word "hail"?? That's slightly frightening.</p><p><b>Meg</b>: First Bisexuality, now Feminism. What's her next "controversial-call-on" quote?</p><p><b>Kate</b>: Haha, what the hell? She obviously just pointed out that she is not
treated like an equal because she is woman, and she asserted that she
was equal and she should be allowed to express her sexuality and be
crazy without being judged. Why would anyone ask "Are you also
feminist?" She obviously has some very strong feminist notions! This
stupid interview just perpetuates misinformation about an important
movement, gawd.</p><p><b>Therese</b>: Clearly, Lady Gaga is not only just another rock star, she's also just another idiot.</p><p><b>Leona</b>: I wondered if y'all would call her out for implying that feminists don't love men and saying "feminist" with such disdain.</p><p><b>Julia</b>: wow what a moron. right on, therese.</p><p><b>Andrea</b>: oh man lady gaga is just as stupid as her music</p><p><b>Maria</b>: smoking a cigarette, grabbing her crotch,liking fast cars and fucking
girls...again - why does she have to label that non-feminist? oh yes,
because we are so post-feminist, right? meh. i am SO tired of this.</p><p><b>Karli</b>: Can't say all the lights are on or even that I suspect anyone might be home. EVER.</p><p><b>Rita</b>: I agree with Maria. Fucking girls can be a very feminist thing to do.
;) And who's to say feminists don't like smoking or cars? She seems to
buying into feminist stereotypes that we're all man-hating fun-hating
prudes. Anyway, she is un-smart.</p><p><b>Emily</b>: I agree.<br />I didn't like her already.</p><p><b>Chantay</b>: When did Feminism and man-hating go hand-in-hand? I happen to love men
myself, which is why I wanted to be treated as an equal to them. Who
HAIL's anyone?</p><p><b>Bethany</b>: that's the problem - sheesh - people mistaking "FEMINISM" for 'ANTI-MALE'. not true. wrong wrong wrong. lame lame lame.</p><p><b>Victor</b>: feminists in the UK appear to be pseudo-male not Anti-male but we guys
aren't attracted to pseudo-men! If you want to be treated equally then
you better get used to being treated like men treat each other - and
there's always a roughing up (verbally and emotionally) to be had
between men. There's nothing in it of course but women hardly ever seem
to get that point :) </p><p><b>Helen</b>: Victor - Being treated as men's equals does not mean being treated 'the
same as men'. It means being treated as people of equal value. Also,
I'm from the UK, am a feminist, and would like to think I'm not a
pseudo-man.</p><p><i>Comment has been omitted.</i></p><p><b>Jennifer</b>: Victor=Troll. Saying "Women hardly ever seem to get that point :)" with
a cute little patronizing smiley face is douchemongering to the
extreme. Maybe these "pseudo-man" women aren't interested in attracting
men like you, Victor? Just a thought. Also, "We just aren't that
sophisticated" is basically saying "HURR, I AM MAN, I AM DUMB." Way to
take both men and women down a peg.</p><p><i>Comment has been omitted.</i></p><p><b>Valerie</b>: interesting that men set the standards of how women should be treated,
rather than the conversation being how people on the planet should
treat each other. Also interesting that Victor speaks for "we"- who are
these "we" who are with Victor, I wonder?</p><p><b>Malerie</b>: Since when did respecting women and yourself become uncool?</p><p><b>Jessica</b>: Hissy fit? Reminds me of the old womens "medical" condition hysteria. A
woman starts be forthright and vocal and she's "hysterical" or having a
"hissy fit".<br /><br />All feminists are pseudo-men like all homosexual men are effeminate hair dressers. Someone lives in stereotype land.</p><p><b>Deanna</b>: Jennifer - great post. Victor, what is so sad and depressing about you
and your life that you feel the need to not only join the Bitch
Magazine board as a silly stereotype of a man, but you feel the need to
troll it as well. You're a sad wee man. <br />Lady Gaga has always been an idiot.</p><p><i>Comment has been omitted.</i></p><p><b>Sarah</b>: Feminists do not hate men...ugh! Ppl are so uptight about the word without understanding its meaning.</p><p><b>Nancy</b>: Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Really, stick a sock in it Gagsta.</p><p><b>Karen</b>: didn't realize the two were mutually exclusive</p><p><b>Olivia</b>: she was annoying before this statement...</p><p><b>Leiya</b>: so glad this was posted. i was pretty disturbed to hear her deny
feminism as man-hating after a clearly feminist statement that was not
man-hating.</p><p><b>Christine</b>: Why cant people get it???</p><p><b>Jane</b>: Her second statement is contradictory. Why apologize for feminism,
which is what she was doing. I will not apologize, and if I am labeled
as a man-hater, oh well.</p><p><b>Luke</b>: poor lady gaga, it's so hard for a rock star!</p><p><b>Manuela</b>: this from the person who sings "I wanna take a ride on your disco stick." laughable.</p><p><b>Joana</b>: Clearly she has no idea what a feminist is if she thinks that in order to be a feminist, you have to hate men. <br />Feminism
is about equality, not about tearing the other gender down to make room
for its opposite. Why do so many people have this misconception?</p><p><b>Tessa</b>: Another terrible example of misinformation. Lady Gaga stands for some
very feminist principles but still thinks all feminists are man-haters.
I am a feminist and I love men. If I hated men, I wouldn't date anyone
because hating an entire gender is very unhealthy and quite
misinformed. I really like that Lady Gaga does spread the idea that she
can <span class="text_exposed_hide">... <span class="text_exposed_link"><a onclick="CSS.addClass($(">Read More</a></span></span><span class="text_exposed_show">do
what she damn well pleases with her sexuality because it belongs to
her, but I wonder why no one ever told her that is a feminist idea. <br /><br />I'm
also a little confused as to why she started listing masculine things
after her comment about men. Feminists don't hate those things, we just
want women to enjoy them too. :)</span></p><p><b>Emily</b>: I don't think this joke of a "rock star" understands feminism at all.
Why does it have to be man-hating. I love men. But to me, all people
are equal, and should be treated as such. She'll go away soon anyway,
but it is disappointing for another women of some renown to be putting
down feminism- when they don't understand what they are talking about. <br />PS- Men can be feminist too!</p><p><b>Jessica</b>: She's a hypocrite, a coward, and her music sucks. I mean, with all
those kids that hear her music, she could be a role model, yet she
chooses to turn the other cheek. Ti's a shame indeed.</p><p><b>Genevieve</b>: Can someone please send her a pamphlet on 'feminism & you'?</p><p><b>Amber</b>: Aye.. anyone who thinks feminists are man haters is either ignorant or anachronistic.</p><p><b>Amber</b>: probably both.</p><p><i>Comment has been omitted.</i></p><p><b>Amber</b>: you don't have to hate men to be a feminist...period</p><p><b>Samantha</b>: Never mind that men are capable of being feminists themselves.</p><p><b>Jay</b>: Alot of women who proclaim to be feminists also go on man hating
tirades. Of course thats not all feminists, but enough of the vocals
ones do this and it paints a bad picture for the entire group. Im not
suggesting that its ok, merely stating why there is this conception of
what feminism is. When some women start spelling their sex as womyn and
get<span class="text_exposed_hide">... <span class="text_exposed_link"><a onclick="CSS.addClass($(">Read More</a></span></span><span class="text_exposed_show">
offended at anything that could be remotely misconstrued in any way as
sexist (even if not) then it garners a bad reputation. Equality is one
thing. But is suspect that a lot of women want equality when suitable
and traditionalism otherwise. For example, women want to work and make
as much money as men (good thing) but guess who is still expected to
pay for the date? "Bitch" magazine? Since when is bitch a compliment?
Bitch is a female dog. You dont find men reading Ahole magazine or jerk
magazine do you?</span></p><p><b>Jason</b>: "Alot of women who proclaim to be feminists also go on man hating tirades."<br />Which feminists go on man hating tirades Jay? Some names please.<br />On the one hand, it pisses me off to here Gaga repeat this tired old cliche,on the other,her music sucks, so the hell with her.</p><p><b>Jade</b>: Jay - That's a very general statement. I don't pay as often for dates
as my boyfriend does, but that's because 1. my job pays less than his,
and 2. he wants to usually pay for it.<br />Nonetheless, I'd still like
to be treated with respect, not objectified, and thought of as just as
capable in any aspect as any other man out there.<br /><br />Bitch isn't <span class="text_exposed_hide">... <span class="text_exposed_link"><a onclick="CSS.addClass($(">Read More</a></span></span><span class="text_exposed_show"><span>supposed
to be a compliment. It's kinda meant to be ironic. It's just like when
black people say the n-word. It's like when gays called each other
"faggot" or "queer." It's taking a word geared towards us and claiming
it as our own. No, men don't have an Asshole magazine, but some of the
magazines out there might as well be named that
(*coughMaximEsquirecough*)</span><wbr></wbr><span class="word_break"></span>.</span> </p><p><i>Take note: Opinions expressed are those of their respective authors, not necessarily those of</i> Bitch. <i>Dig?</i></p>
I would take everything she
Whitney replied on
I would take everything she says with a grain of salt. She could have simply said it for shock value. She's said other things just to piss off the journalist interviewing her.
Wow. Like Wow.
Alyx Jolivet replied on
Wow. She's incredibly ignorant for going off about how people should perceive her as a popstar and not a hot girl, her love and adorable for the gay community's lack of bias towards her, then turning around and claiming she is NOT a feminist.
Dear Lady Gaga-
Research your definitions and stop perpetuating this empty definition of what Feminism is
Really, I want to find out who decided that feminism = man haters? What does that make misandrists? Super man bashing hating hate haters?
some blame left over, to go around
Ya Right replied on
it's largely feminists themselves that have given the clear impression that they are anti-male.
one other thing
Ya Right replied on
sorry, I forgot to mention something. One thing that has *always* turned me off about Feminists is exactly this. How so much energy is directed at men, anger, hatred, blame. I once asked a Feminist friend of mine to find one positive statement about men from a noted Feminist. She came back with a quote from someone I can't remember that went like this "...not all men are the enemy.."
Please, that's a positive statement !?
So, I would challange all of you to do the same. Can you find one positive statement from a noted Feminist about men in general, not just men that do as we say or what we like, but in general.
Alyx Jolivet replied on
Your friend has the wrong idea of what feminism really is then.
Everyone at this magazine is very aware that feminism = equality between genders. I've never heard anyone manbash, at all. We love men. Men are awesome. What is frustrating is when people unjustly accuse us of manbashing, which are often from people who fear feminism, don't understand feminism, or confuse feminism with misandry.
If you want a quote from a feminist about men from a positive light, then hells bells - I'll give you one of my own. And I'm sure that if you asked any real feminist doesn't twist the very solid definition that feminism represents, they'll give you a wonderful one too.
"You don't have to be anti-man to be pro-woman." ~Jane Galvin Lewis
"It was we, the people; not we, the white male citizens; nor yet we, the male citizens; but we, the whole people, who formed the Union.... Men, their rights and nothing more; women, their rights and nothing less." ~Susan B. Anthony
"I do not wish them to have power over men, but over themselves." ~Mary Wollstonecraft
If you want to do justice to what Feminism REALLY means, you wouldn't bash it based on a false definition - instead you would correct your friends, your family, and associates whenever they confuse the term Feminism with Misandry. It might help re-convey the positive image that Feminism stands for instead of this ignorant lie.
The question is this, ya:
Do you believe that MEN should be equal to women, and respected at the same level that a woman is?
If your answer is yes - You are a feminist.
Give me a dictionary definition that says otherwise, or says - specifically - feminism = man hating.
These are positive
William replied on
Statements About Men?
Casey replied on
Of course "MOST of the things we benefit from today" were invented by men; men have historically had more access to education and training, financing, and institutional resources which facilitate invention. Not only did women typically lack these resources, they were often actively discouraged from doing what it took to invent and innovate. And of course men "take up MOST of the dangerous jobs in the world;" women have historically been barred from them and in some cases still are (i.e. infantry duty), or are otherwise often discouraged from taking "macho" jobs and so are in the slim minority in those professions. The individuals that have made these sacrifices and contributions to society deserve praise, but to use these statements as examples of GROUP accomplishments has disturbing implications because it suggests these are inherently male qualities. Try making similar "positive statements" about another group who enjoys power, like white people or straight people, and you'll see what I mean.
As for your dissatisfaction with the previous poster's examples of positive quotations about men, I think I see what you're taking issue with; though the statements mention men, they are saying nothing positive or empowering about them as a sex. It's important to remember, however, that feminism assumes there is a power disparity between women and men, thus it seeks to elevate the status of WOMEN. Following from that, it doesn't surprise me that it is easier to find feminist statements about the empowerment of women than it is about the empowerment of men. And as far as "anger, hate, and blame" being directed at men, I have NEVER come across a single feminist who could be described that way.
@ Ya Right
bitch replied on
Buddy, go read a book!!!!
Anonymous replied on
No, backlash against feminist and ignorance has given others the impression that feminists are anti-male.
Where the road ends
Ya Right replied on
See, this is always where the discussion ends.
After so many angry voices that this woman should even suggest that feminists are misandrists, I would think that even one could defend my assertion that so many are, it's not an unfounded statement.
When asked to find one noted feminist that has had something positive to say about men, the discussion ends. I would ask if there's one that doesn't speak negatively of men, when the subject arises. I'm not claiming that feminists need to speak about men at all, but when they do, is there a balance?
Martin Luther King Jr., for example, made great effort to make clear that while approaching the subjects of racism and prejudice, it would be easy to feel hatred of white people. But, he begged his followers not to do so, not to become racist themselves.
Where do you see this from any feminist leaders?
Again, I challenge anyone to find an example. If not, perhaps is the accusers that are misguided.
Response to Poster who posts a real hard challenge for us
Anonymous replied on
Although Ya Right is no longer interested maybe some other people are....
Pro Men Quotes
No man is as anti-feminist as a really feminine woman. ~Frank O'Connor
Men weren't really the enemy - they were fellow victims suffering from an outmoded masculine mystique that made them feel unnecessarily inadequate when there were no bears to kill. ~Betty Friedan
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem
"We still live in a world in which a significant fraction of people, including women, believe that a woman belongs and wants to belong exclusively in the home." —Rosalyn Sussman (Nobel Prize-winning medical physicist)
Every time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man. ~Margaret Mead
Anyone can be a feminist, just as anyone can be anti-feminist (even women).
Again read my post earlier this night, almost every feminist article does not claim men are the inherent problem, but the patriarchal culture and system we live in is the problem and the fact that we are all taught to internalize this system. Feminism does not say hate men, we want to point out the structure of oppression which has negative consequences for everyone (including male children who are forced to feel inadequate if they don't fit into our expectations of male roles), but of course more negative consequences for women.
Feminism is a hate movement!
Evil White Male replied on
<i>This comment has been deleted by a moderator. </i>
Embracing Femininity is a Part of Feminism
DesertRose replied on
No man is as anti-feminist as a really feminine woman. ~Frank O'Connor
I completely disagree. While some feminists attempt to abandon “feminine” characteristics in order to ensure that they are not characterized as “feminine,” this can arguably be perceived as a backward movement, as one interpretation of such action involving forceful alienation of femininity can be said to imply that men are the ideal to which women should aspire, which irrationally ignores the valuable differences between men and women and defeats the purpose by proposing that the sexes are not equal, but that women should <i>strive</i> to be equal. Feminism is about individualism. If a woman is less feminine, that's her choice and that's great for her. But it would be disastrous and backward to look down on women who <i>are</i>!
I think a better description of an anti-feminist is simply a man or a woman who either believes that men are inferior to women or that women are inferior to men.
Hey, I understand what you
A Ginva replied on
Hey, I understand what you mean. However, I don't think refusing traditional femininity necessarily means assimilating to masculinity, which is nothing else than a sad capitulation to the mechanism of the dominating class (i.e. becoming aggressive so not to be aggressed, rather than changing the rules that forces people to be aggressive in the first place). As much as the negative aspects of masculinity (domination, violence and aggressivity) should be questioned, so should those of femininity (tied to submission, servility and compulsory sexual service). Both mutually support each other, and both contribute to reinforcing patriarchal dynamics: it can't be one without the other.Therefore to escape the binary logic of domination-submssion on which patriarchy is based, both traditional femininity and masculinity should be rejected in order to create something entirely new; attitudes that generate and emanate from unconditional self respect and respect of the other, and most of all, that can be shared by both sexes and no longer exclusive to one or the other. That is, the gender binary should no longer be relevant.
N replied on
While I absolutely encourage continued discussions on A.) Why young people (young women in particular) resist the label "feminist" and B.) Feminist readings of pop culture, I think that we *may* want to leave open the possibility that Lady Gaga (who is very clearly a *character* first and foremost) may be speaking ironically. She has said repeatedly that she is a performance artist and wishes only to be viewed in the context of her performances. To make a claim as absurd as "I hail men, I love male culture...beer...bars..." etc., after pointing quite smartly to double standards for female sexuality, seems to me playful...she loves to mock her interviewers. She always sounds weary of answering questions about sex. Because the questions themselves are always absurd: I've heard her respond to the question "What do you look for in a man" simply by saying "Big dick." Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. That is not to say that people's frustration about women declining the label feminist is not warranted, but I think that in the case of Gaga (as opposed to, say, Madonna, who refused the label throughout the 90s quite austerely), we might want to talk about how irony, play and performance make a difference. The woman is brilliant...and so very meta. Maybe I'm giving her too much credit, but whenever I see things like this, I read them as part of her performance, which is a celebration *and critique* of pop culture...not her honest opinions as Stefani Germanotta, singer.
I completely agree with you
Candi replied on
I completely agree with you N. She makes pro-woman statements and discusses the inequalities between men and women and is then asked a completely ignorant question, are you a feminist? I believe that her response, which was purposefully worded to sound equally as ignorant as the question, is meant to fuel this discussion. She is obviously an intelligent female fighting for equal rights in what she perceives as a sexist career field. For the interviewer to then ask if she is a feminist was basically a slap in the face and the interviewer saying 'I didn't listen to you at all'.
N replied on
The way I see it is there
Melissa replied on
The way I see it is there are two kinds of feminists: First, there are ones who want gender equality, and want to be respected. Then there are the ones who have one-night stands, dress like sluts (while thinking it is "empowering" for women), and *think* they're being feminists. Lady GAGa is the latter.
What she's doing (and saying in her lyrics) is making people think it's ok to be that way, and she's giving women a bad name and image. Feminism is about having self-respect. But still, how much self-respect can you have while you believing the things she does? The fact that she's associating "man-hating" with feminism kind of tells you alot, doesn't it?
Andy Warhol must be turning over in his grave to think people associate her trashy "style" with his true art.
A 17 year-old feminist (and I'm pretty damn proud!)
Melissa: I think it is
N replied on
I think it is awesome that at 17 you identify so strongly with feminism! I think that is a rarity.
I feel uncomfortable with the reduction of any woman to a "slut" though. I think you are right to think about the sometimes fine line between empowered female sexuality and objectification...but is it fair to hold women to a standard for sexuality to which we do not hold men? I say this as a gay man who often has to justify non-normative sexual practices and is surrounded by gay men who think that "slutty gays" give "the rest of us" a bad name, as if our political goal should simply be centered on mainstream acceptance..."Look, we're just like you!"
I think that feminism *is* concerned with self-respect, I think that it is equally concerned with debunking myths of female purity and regulating women's sexual desires and actions. The dichotomy your post reinforces seems to me a variation of the "Virgin/Whore" framework that feminists have been working against for years. Women either "respect themselves" or are "whores." Is there no in between? Can sex not be fun? Playful? Healthy?
Granted, as I wrote in my earlier post, I read Gaga's performance differently than some people on this board...but even if you decide that she isn't being particularly empowering or subversive or smart (which I think she is!) I think that as feminists, we at least owe her the respect of not always having to *justifying* or explain her sexuality. I think that is a big part of feminism.
N: "...but even if you
Melissa replied on
"...but even if you decide that she isn't being particularly empowering or subversive or smart (which I think she is!) I think that as feminists, we at least owe her the respect of not always having to *justifying* or explain her sexuality. I think that is a big part of feminism."
While I don't like her, this I do have to agree with.
"I think that feminism *is* concerned with self-respect, I think that it is equally concerned with debunking myths of female purity and regulating women's sexual desires and actions. The dichotomy your post reinforces seems to me a variation of the "Virgin/Whore" framework that feminists have been working against for years. Women either "respect themselves" or are "whores." Is there no in between? Can sex not be fun? Playful? Healthy?"
Of course, there certainly can be an inbetween. I'm not saying all women who have sex are "whores".
What I am saying (or, rather, trying to say) they only become that way, in my mind, when they go on and on about their sex life. Not only is it TMI (and nobody's business, except for theirs), but it makes me uncomfortable because it seems to be the norm nowadays. I'm not saying anything like women should keep quiet about things like that, but it just gets to be too much sometimes, you know?
The way I see society today, women are being treated as sex objects. Things like Lady Gaga's lyrics (and the magazine, Cosmopolitan- don't get me started on that!), unfortunately, reinforce that, in a way.
I'm really not a fan of hers, and I'm not familiar with exactly *what* she does, and I really don't know the meaning behind her lyrics, so maybe I'm being a little harsh here.
(I hope that makes sense, I'm not very good at trying to explain what I think :P)
I totally see what you are
N replied on
I totally see what you are saying. You are much more articulate than I was at 17! And I don't necessarily think there is always a "yes" or "no" answer to the question: is this empowering or objectifying? I just worry about labeling overtly sexual women "sluts." It seems more like right-wing sexual hypocrisy than feminism to me...but you are totally right to be thinking about how pop culture (cosmo, music vids etc.) set a commonly unhealthy standard for women.
"Of course, there certainly
Whitney replied on
"Of course, there certainly can be an inbetween. I'm not saying all women who have sex are "whores".
What I am saying (or, rather, trying to say) they only become that way, in my mind, when they go on and on about their sex life."
Um, I've never heard Lady Gaga go "on and on" about her sex life. She likes to fuck with reporters, it's very funny actually, and any hint of her sex life is in her songs.
And even so, that doesn't make her one of those women you say think they are a feminist. Talking about one's sex life in detail does not make one a nonfeminist.
"Not only is it TMI (and nobody's business, except for theirs), but it makes me uncomfortable because it seems to be the norm nowadays."
I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable, but c'est la vie. Some people like to talk about sex. I say get over it. And, on top of it, I think that it's GOOD that women talk about sex because of the myths about us in the past that have been perpetuated, like we don't really like having sex and we only do it for a man's pleasure, that we think sex is a nasty chore, etc.
T"he way I see society today, women are being treated as sex objects. Things like Lady Gaga's lyrics (and the magazine, Cosmopolitan- don't get me started on that!), unfortunately, reinforce that, in a way."
There's nothing wrong with being a sex object if you choose to be. And I don't know how you consider her to be a sex object, if not for a couple of lines in one of her songs.
"I'm really not a fan of hers, and I'm not familiar with exactly *what* she does, and I really don't know the meaning behind her lyrics, so maybe I'm being a little harsh here."
Well, then i suggest you really just listen. Because they are a lot, lot deeper than just silly pop lyrics. She puts a lot of thought into her music, I just saw her in san francisco, and she cares immensely about her artform. And she is an incredible performer and visual artist.
Go learn more
Whitney replied on
Wow, so Lady Gaga has one-night stands and dresses like a slut?
Honey, please go get more life experiences.
And of course it's "OK" to have one-night stands and dress like a "slut." If we start saying that it's not OK, then we start shaming women. I might not personally agree with that lifestyle, but it's their prerogative and it's their right. If they find it empowering, more power to them. Feminism is also about not being afraid to be yourself, and to also not be criticized for it. If it's damaging to others, that's a different story, but I don't think that anything what Lady Gaga singes about or does is damaging in any way to women.
And Andy Warhol was a shitty artist. He didn't touch a single print that he did, and instead strutted around in his factory and instructed his little minions to do his art for him. And he was incredibly misogynistic, just look at what he did to Edie Sedgwick. His true art? HA!
It's obvious you're only 17 because you don't really know what feminism is, let alone what art is.
N replied on
Hey...I disagreed with Melissa too, but how about being a little more respectful? At 17, I think it is awesome that she is so concerned with these issues and is developing a critical eye.
Why is it that feminists
Anonymous replied on
Why is it that feminists will almost undoubtedly stand behind the LGBTQ movement, yet it's rarely the other way around?
Most won't. Remember that in
AW replied on
Most won't. Remember that in both of these movements most of the followers have a disdain for anything outside what they see fit. To these, a woman, who chooses to be a housewife for instance, has made a very bad decision. Most will never say it out loud, but their goal is to destroy any semblance of this and anything that has the name "tradition" in it, even if it may be a good tradition. It is the same broad brush, which they paint patriarchy with negatively, that they accuse people who support patriarchy of painting feminism with. My stance on this whole thing? Call it semantics, but I refuse feminism for the same reason i refuse the broad label of patriarch; largely because the very word itself has already defined itself with one gender in mind. It already looks bad in the mind and sounds worse upon leaving the mouth. Such a concept CANNOT possibly be anything about equality of any kind, and this folly about men being able to be feminists?! It's like saying that a male can also be a female. The original movement was about lifting the female from the so-called "oppressive", "male-dominated" system. Right now there are MANY more men being oppressed. Oppressed by the backlash from this very movement, and by a LOT of misguided folk who have hijacked it. Sounds like a new name and a new movement is in order.
There's nothing wrong with feminism
Anonymous replied on
I think that some people have unfortunately associated being a feminist with being a bitch. Feminists are not bitches, they're just pissed off by the way that women have been/are treated in societies. The fact that Lady Gaga can walk around with no pants on shows a definate progress in our societies, and it shows definitive equality.
If men had been considered "lesser beings" or the "property" of women for millenias instead of the other way around, I assure you that there would have been masculinists...or whatever, and they would have fought for male rights. (I assume the word is not 'chauvinists' because chauvinists believe that men are superior to women whereas feminists only believe in the equality of women in relation to men)
Everyone has the right to be fully equal in every aspect of life. Feminism is extremely important because it shows that there are people that are not afraid to fight for justice and equality. Movements for the equality of blacks/asians/homosexuals/cripples are equally important too.
Everyone should be a humanist, and everyone should fight for the complete equality of every person.
The Issue is the Stigma
EmpressJudge replied on
I think what she was addressing was the "man-bashing" stigma attached to feminism, not feminism itself. And while that wasn't the most straightforward way of going about it, it comes from an understandable place (I myself am a devoted feminist, yet I still go back and forth as to whether I should declare myself as such, esp. when the man-bashing starts to rear its ugly head). Also, this tiptoeing around the issue is so Gaga. Remember how it took her forever to actually confirm that she was bisexual?
Lady Gaga just strikes me as an individual who is very wary of labels, that's all I'm saying. Also, she recently recanted the "not feminist" claims and has embraced it.
Lady Gaga is an idiot for
Anonymous replied on
Lady Gaga is an idiot for saying this. She is obviously completely uneducated about history and has bought into the dumb stereotype like some robot. If she only knew what the definition of a FEMINIST was and had any knowledge about her own history as a woman, she would probably proudly declare herself one. I had liked Lady Gaga before this, but this has made me lose respect for her. She made herself out to be pretty unintelligent and much too influenced by others in my opinion.
"Lady Gaga is an idiot for
Anonymous replied on
"Lady Gaga is an idiot for saying this...She made herself out to be pretty unintelligent and much too influenced by others in my opinion. "
How convenient. So she should follow your opinion...ha...ha...........ha....
Well it sure doesn't take a lot of brains to be a feminist.
Men and women are not equal, biologically. Biology affects society, not the other way around. I'm a biological determinist, (social) Darwinist, evolutionist, after all, not some half-wit social constructionist that can't pull EMPIRICAL evidence out of her or his ass even if the cows came home. Women Studies is a joke degree. It would be treated as Creationism if it wasn't for all the ad hocs, reverse psychology, and guilt by association that feminist use.
I seek and tired of women talk about "Independence." While I understand that they are different "strands" of feminism they all have the same basic principle. A women's worth is only as good as if she is equal (in privilege, biology, economics, etc) to that of a man. This is a false criterion in the first place because it assume that women and men should be compared on the same basis when they are biologically different.
Of course an argument that feminist hear is the double standard one but I won't go into that, even though it is huge.
Also men and women are biologically designed to be dependent upon each other (interdependent) or else the homo sapiens wouldn't exist. If women are equal and independent then there is no biological need or dependency for her to seek a mate, which is the end of human beings as we know it. Also "Independent strong women" tend to be nagging materialistic bitches who want there own way and will divorce a man for alimony.
Proof in point (I'm not going to write the article), just check out LA Times Calender for Feb 28 2010, page: D1, "In James Cameron's World Women are in Charge," where the author spews all sort of shit. I will quote the last paragraph from this loser of a Feminist, "Meanwhile Sam Worthington's Jake Sully [actor in Avatar] spends most of the film just trying to keep up with her. She [Zoe Saladana's Neytiri] loves him, but refuses to lose herself in the process. In the end he is the one to give up everything, including his human form, to be with her. All in all, a woman just right for these times." She attaches the article with "Terminator 2: It's obvious that Linda Hamilton can take care of herself." As well as asserting in Terminator 2 when Schwarzeneggers cyborg changes sides from good to evil...that is proof that women aren't the only ones who changer their mind.
What a piss off.
No, Feminism is anti men, anti science, anti reproduction, anti biology, and anti women.
Lady Gaga no thanks
Zaneta replied on
There were some good points made in this thread about GAGA being playful in her answers and answering back adequately to the "stupid" question. Well I don't actually think the question was so stupid - in the face of the debate around the dirty word "feminism" I think it's important to reassess our attitudes towards it, because perhaps it's become so shameful that we should rethink our using it at all? She (Lady Gaga) seems to me a hyperreal doll, evading definitions, playing with conventions (and all the rest of so-called postmodern techniques), trying hard to preserve her anonymity and be conspicuous by absence, and yet because she is everywhere and is quite outspoken the most likely reaction to her musings is to take them at face value. We should also remember that because of her musical style (pop) most fans would not necessarily come from an academic, critical background, able to dissect her playful sophisticated remarks (as seen even in this thread here - one short interview has generated a plethora of different interpretations), so I think that no matter how smart she might actually be, or be perceived by some, her declarations of not being a feminist are not beneficial to the movement on the whole.
A Gaga blog post that may be of interest...
Anonymous replied on
Personally I think Gaga is VERY feminist. Some good points are made here:
"Appoint[s] herself 'a feminist'"
Samantha replied on
I was just reading the Q Magazine interview (the one where she is wearing a dildo on the cover), when these words caught my eye:
"Appointing herself 'a feminist'..." (Here is the scan - it is in the second column, right under the red text: http://gagadaily.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=378&pos=5)
The next part of the sentence doesn't really delve deeper, it just goes on to talk about her repeatedly wearing glittery pants for the paps to photograph & how she believes in the power of propaganda. But she does make a number of interesting comments in this article.
On a related note, this Out piece that Gaga tweeted about is also worth reading, probably more so than the one above. It's an interview with Heather Cassils (Gaga's prison girlfriend in the "Telephone" video) where she talks about her involvement with the video & her thoughts on the portrayals of queer women in mainstream media:
@LadyGaga http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=26601 Article by my most favorite young writer in an interview with the remarkable and inspiring Heather
I thought feminism was about
Agata replied on
I thought feminism was about letting women make their own choices about who they want to be, rather than catering to what society thinks they should be like. Newsflash, Hoby. As a feminist myself, I support the right of women to choose to be vapid blonde bimbos. And if you think that Gaga (who has never been ashamed to show off quite a bit of her body in overtly sexual ways) is the typical story of a talented woman reduced to a cookie-cutter sex symbol, then you clearly don't know Gaga.
well you see the problem
Anonymous replied on
well you see the problem with ths video is that, the vdeo was cut out into smaller pieces yes i know to make the "air time" shorte BUT the problem is that we arent getting the full video ad THATis what s wrong here. yu need to ply the whole video. so you bettermake smatter choces when puttingthese things out tthe public
In a couple of recent
sarah.vincent722 replied on
In a couple of recent interviews, Lady Gaga now says "I am a feminist". I think she realized that she was wrong about her definition of feminism. Plenty, if not most, women and men have at one time thought that feminism is about hating men because that is what society portrays it to be. Once they actually look into it however, they learn otherwise. I know I use to think that, but now, I know that is wrong. People learn and change. I think that's what Gaga did as well.
I think the main problem is
Maddie, 19 replied on
I think the main problem is language.
The word "feminism" has suffered an awful fate: Feminism is simply the promotion of female rights. Misandry is the hatred of men. When did being a feminist mean being a violent and vindictive person? If you look at the history of feminism and the definition of feminism you'll find a legacy of peace and grace. Do your research before you bad mouth a struggling political movement.
Today politicians, performers, even people who fight for woman's rights are rejecting the label "feminist" because they associate it with the extreme.
Come on Gaga- Somewhere emit your theatricality, your sexually charged lyrics, your pseudo-nudity, can't you find the courage to associate yourself with feminism? I think she's a coward. I think she afraid she won't sell as many records if she stands up for women. Because in order to promote woman's rights you must have an alterier motive to bring men down, right?
I guess Gaga has to constantly be on defense. She's a pop star, and in order to be POPular you can't push the envelope. Well she does push it with extreme costumes, sex, and the macabre. But actually standing up for something you believe in? Actually having a message? Hoping to improve the lives and expand the thinking of your fan base? Well even Lady Gaga isn't that crazy.
J replied on
In this Larry King interview, Lady Gaga calls herself a feminist. I think the context of this interview needs to be considered too, and possibly the way in which she was asked "Are you a feminist?" influenced her response.
Lady Gaga in charge of defining Manliness
Bryce replied on
Well I am male, and don't remember the meeting we all had where we picked what manliness was and picked Lady Gaga as our spokesman whoops I mean spokesperson not that that little slip up would bother little miss not feminist. I do drink the occasional beer but I'm not a drunk, nor do I really bother to watch or pay attention to professional sports, and neither do most of my friends. Not really into muscle cars either, I don't hate em or anything but they aren't an interest of mine or something I am gonna spend my money on. I mean I like girls I'm straight but I'm not some horn dog player, or I at least don't act like one, and I try to keep any grabbing of my genital areas private, that tends to make you unpopular unless you are a rock star. Honestly as a male I find it kind of sexist when women expect you to be macho and have to be all wild and crazy, and selfish. In the long run this oppresses women and results in a lot of single mothers and deadbeat dads, in the short run it makes guys jump through hoops like trained seals for the entertainment of girls, especially the" hot" girls who often milk this limited form of power they have when they are young for all its worth. The truth is men need help from women in changing the definition of what "being a man" is. So much of what guys especially younger ones do is totally revolved around our obsession with women. But as long as so many women expect want and look for a standard of manliness that is immature... Well men aren't gonna be motivated to grow up. I suppose some lesbian feminists won't care about this but for all you straight women who want male companionship start expecting the kind that matches what you believe in and leave the "bad boys" alone. They aren't dumb they are just doing an act that to be frank gets them laid and gets them attention which is what they wanted.